[Bry]

At least one of the attackers was reported to the police by a friend. He also appeared on "Jihadis Next Door" on Channel 4.

The Manchester bomber was also reported by a friend and the local mosque.

To me it sounds like it's our intelligence agencies or legal system which is failing.

I see you changed your post to answer your question, what I expect people to do if they suspect someone is to not only report them but to make sure they are listened to by the police, I realise the people making the calls would be scared for there own lives but if they are brave enough to pick up the phone they need to give all the info. In any case as far as I'm aware it's never been confirmed that any of these calls actually took place.

What did the people at the local Mosque do?

Easy to blame the Police isn't it, understaffed but no one want's to pay for more. If there wasn't so many to keep tabs on there job wouldn't be so difficult.

23000 must use up a hell of a lo of Police resources costing £millions like I said before GET RID.

 

[Ian J]

I see you changed your post to answer your question, what I expect people to do if they suspect someone is to not only report them but to make sure they are listened to by the police, I realise the people making the calls would be scared for there own lives but if they are brave enough to pick up the phone they need to give all the info. In any case as far as I'm aware it's never been confirmed that any of these calls actually took place.

What did the people at the local Mosque do?

Easy to blame the Police isn't it, understaffed but no one want's to pay for more. If there wasn't so many to keep tabs on there job wouldn't be so difficult.

23000 must use up a hell of a lo of Police resources costing £millions like I said before GET RID.

Define how you would get rid, are you advocating removing all suspected extremists, everyone who has had a telephone call made about them etc?

Where would you personally draw the line

 

[Davehull]

I see you changed your post to answer your question, what I expect people to do if they suspect someone is to not only report them but to make sure they are listened to by the police, I realise the people making the calls would be scared for there own lives but if they are brave enough to pick up the phone they need to give all the info. In any case as far as I'm aware it's never been confirmed that any of these calls actually took place.

What did the people at the local Mosque do?

Easy to blame the Police isn't it, understaffed but no one want's to pay for more. If there wasn't so many to keep tabs on there job wouldn't be so difficult.

23000 must use up a hell of a lo of Police resources costing £millions like I said before GET RID.

Here you go:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/24/security-services-missed-five-opportunities-stop-manchester/

How do you propose you "make sure they are listened to by the police"?

You can't do anything more than tell the police what you know and have seen. They will be told "yes sir, we will look in to it and pass on your concerns".

Lots of people blame the communities for not stopping it - but it appears they have tried to and aren't being listened to.

I agree though - why is the bloke who was on "Jihadis Next Door" who was filmed reaching hate not just kicked out the country.

 

[Bry]

Define how you would get rid, are you advocating removing all suspected extremists, everyone who has had a telephone call made about them etc?

Where would you personally draw the line

As I said known extremists not necessarily all those who have been reported, the Police know who 99% are. Obviosly several unknowns have slipped through lately.

GET RID : remove from our society, deport, lock up or don't let back into to country.

 

[Bry]

Here you go:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/24/security-services-missed-five-opportunities-stop-manchester/

How do you propose you "make sure they are listened to by the police"?

You can't do anything more than tell the police what you know and have seen. They will be told "yes sir, we will look in to it and pass on your concerns".

Lots of people blame the communities for not stopping it - but it appears they have tried to and aren't being listened to.

I agree though - why is the bloke who was on "Jihadis Next Door" who was filmed reaching hate not just kicked out the country.

A report in a newspaper to me is not from a reliable or credible source.I like to see these things confirmed by official sources.

Who knows how hard they tried to be taken seriously if they called, you've got to remember Police I suspect get many calls daily so sifting the genuine from the malicious is obviously a judgement call from the person taking the call.

I'm not making excuses for the Police just saying it must be difficult but I now think if it is true about the calls they will have to record all calls from now on.

 

[Ian J]

As I said known extremists not necessarily all those who have been reported, the Police know who 99% are. Obviosly several unknowns have slipped through lately.

GET RID : remove from our society, deport, lock up or don't let back into to country.

Ok define known as to what they need to have done to be considered known?

And also where are you going to send people who are born in this country and are subject to the same rights and laws that apply to us?

 

[Bry]

Ok define known as to what they need to have done to be considered known?

And also where are you going to send people who are born in this country and are subject to the same rights and laws that apply to us?

Known: I would have thought obvious but to clarify those known to the police for their extremist views or actions.

Did I say people that are born in our country. NO that's were Lock up comes in or at worst tag. No idea what percentage of the "known" are British but I suspect a high % so my thoughts might not be practical with the prisons already at breaking point.

Do you suggest we do nothing as it's going to be difficult Ian?

 

[Ian J]

Known: I would have thought obvious but to clarify those known to the police.

Did I say people that are born in our country. NO that's were Lock up comes in or at worst tag. No idea what percentage of the "known" are British but I suspect a high % so my thoughts might not be practical with the prisons already at breaking point.

Do you suggest we do nothing as it's going to be difficult Ian?

Stopping further radicalisation is the key to bring this to an end - will take cleverer people than us to sort that out I'm afraid.

When someone is known to the police it could well be just with the suspicion of extremism, you'd need more than that to detain or deport.

I guess we'll learn more as the weeks roll by with all the arrests and investigations that have been made - hard to make a reasonable call without the full picture, we have to trust that the authorities are doing their utmost to prevent further attacks.

 

[randap]

I tried to explain this to my 7yo son yesterday. He asked why do these bad people do this? I told him that it's hard to explain, as it makes no sense - the best explanation I could come up with was:

"imagine someone somewhere told you that blue was the best colour, and that you would be rewarded by an imaginary friend if you helped turn everything blue. Even better, if you were to kill everyone that doesn't think blue is the best colour your imaginary friend would reward you even more".

"Daddy" he said, "but that doesn't make sense and is really silly"....

"Exactly" - I replied.

My son then said - "Daddy, but everyone in the world is one big family, and if these bad people keep doing this, then our family will get really small. Do they want a really small family?" - I couldn't answer this, as I had tears in my eyes...

 

[Bry]

Stopping further radicalisation is the key to bring this to an end - will take cleverer people than us to sort that out I'm afraid.

When someone is known to the police it could well be just with the suspicion of extremism, you'd need more than that to detain or deport.

I guess we'll learn more as the weeks roll by with all the arrests and investigations that have been made - hard to make a reasonable call without the full picture, we have to trust that the authorities are doing their utmost to prevent further attacks.

I'm fully aware of human rights but the line has to be drawn somewhere, surely if they are known by the Police to have extremist views in the current climate that's enough. I realise a change in law would be needed first.

Yes we have to put our trust in the authorities, apparently 5 planned attacks were recently thwarted in the last few weeks so they are not doing that bad imo.

The task they face is massive and stopping radicalisation in the first place needs to be our priority.

 

[Dave276]

"imagine someone somewhere told you that blue was the best colour, and that you would be rewarded by an imaginary friend if you helped turn everything blue. Even better, if you were to kill everyone that doesn't think blue is the best colour your imaginary friend would reward you even more".

Well you were right b.rs: is the best colour

 

[RS3]

The intelligence agencies and Police are doing a massive and very very successful job in thwarting the terrorists. If you search the internet and read alternative media sources on this, a terror attack is prevented an average of 1 per month over the last 10 years with a huge step up in the last year where dozens of attacks have been prevented. On this scale, it's inevitable that some of them get through.

The intelligence agencies and especially the police need more help from us. That means we need to be prepared to pay higher taxes to support them and report suspicious activity when seen. The police are seriously stretched and it's bad for all of us. The government has stripped the backbone from them and this needs turning round fast.

But more importantly, we need to take the very hard and long term prevention measures which will cause uproar. All religious institutions should now be inspected regularly and covertly to weed out the ideology that's driving these attacks. When found to be supporting any form of bigotry or racial/religous hatred against anyone, that institution should be shut down. We also need to end the funding from foreign lands of religious institutions that fuel the ideology. I also think we need to stop selling arms and buying fuel from rogue states such as Saudi Arabia.

We need to be able to have sensible debate about religion, it's validity and if it makes positive or negative contribution to our society without fear of racist branding.

It was a HUGE mistake to allow all of those thousands of people to return from wars in the middle east and to allow all those "refugees" (certainly 80% of them who where Men of fighting age) in to our country. I said it then and it still amazes me now how the government could have been so wreckless and stupid. Trying to prevent people leaving to fight for ISIS and arresting them upon leaving (completely against their human rights actually) but then allowing the ones that got through back to enter the country and try to "keep an eye on them" :facepalm: rather than arresting them, removing their UK passports and flying them straight back. Anyone who can be proved to have been fighting for or trained by ISIS should indeed be rounded up and processed preferably by sending them back and removing their UK passports or detained as prisoners of war at tax payers cost if we must.

 

[Alec M]

Agree with the majority in here, the UK is too namby-pamby, wrapping everyone and everything in cotton wool through fear of 'offending' anyone. Why is it wrong to shoot dead someone who has just carried out/is planning something like this? Why should they share this planet with us?

Okay, there is the side of the argument which says if they're dead they can't talk...but I doubt they would tell intelligence anything because they know they can just say "no comment" and can't be tortured or anything like that.

It might sound "harsh" and "inhumane" to some people, but what they're doing is worse...so I'm all for torturing and killing the scum.

To say killing makes us just as bad as them, it doesn't as it is in a completely different context. We are killing them to protect ourselves and allow innocent people to go about their business...they're killing in the name of some fairy tale character under the impression they will end up in heaven.

Same applies to killing animals. I have no issue with killing animals for food, survival of our species, but I don't like animals being killed for fun/sport.

 

[RS3]

Agree with the majority in here, the UK is too namby-pamby, wrapping everyone and everything in cotton wool through fear of 'offending' anyone. Why is it wrong to shoot dead someone who has just carried out/is planning something like this? Why should they share this planet with us?

Okay, there is the side of the argument which says if they're dead they can't talk...but I doubt they would tell intelligence anything because they know they can just say "no comment" and can't be tortured or anything like that.

It might sound "harsh" and "inhumane" to some people, but what they're doing is worse...so I'm all for torturing and killing the scum.

To say killing makes us just as bad as them, it doesn't as it is in a completely different context. We are killing them to protect ourselves and allow innocent people to go about their business...they're killing in the name of some fairy tale character under the impression they will end up in heaven.

Same applies to killing animals. I have no issue with killing animals for food, survival of our species, but I don't like animals being killed for fun/sport.

Killing is never an option Alec - Only in self defence at the time of an attack. Ultimately, killing will provide justification for more to self radicalise.

 

[Ian J]

Agree with the majority in here, the UK is too namby-pamby, wrapping everyone and everything in cotton wool through fear of 'offending' anyone. Why is it wrong to shoot dead someone who has just carried out/is planning something like this? Why should they share this planet with us?

Okay, there is the side of the argument which says if they're dead they can't talk...but I doubt they would tell intelligence anything because they know they can just say "no comment" and can't be tortured or anything like that.

It might sound "harsh" and "inhumane" to some people, but what they're doing is worse...so I'm all for torturing and killing the scum.

To say killing makes us just as bad as them, it doesn't as it is in a completely different context. We are killing them to protect ourselves and allow innocent people to go about their business...they're killing in the name of some fairy tale character under the impression they will end up in heaven.

Same applies to killing animals. I have no issue with killing animals for food, survival of our species, but I don't like animals being killed for fun/sport.

I don't think anyone in this thread disagrees that the 3 from the other night needed to be eliminated - the police response was justified, I can't remember a post on here saying it wasn't or have I missed something?

 

[legs]

One problem is that these guys know they will be killed & want to be because that makes them a martyr and they then get their 50 virgins or whatever they think they get.
They are willing to die for what they believe in, but are the people at the top of the group (or cult as it would be better know) willing to die, I'd hazard a guess at NO!

 

[RS3]

It's 72 virgins according to the islamists. Peace loving Muslims suggest it means 72 grapes or something!

Either way - Its Bull ****!

 

[randap]

I was told on my school governor training that we have a legal responsibility to report cases where children are subject to a "single narrative" as part of the Prevent strategy. I asked how does this stack up with faith schools - the response was "I don't know"...

Surely faith schools, unless they have EQUAL treatment of ALL religious beliefs, are counter productive, and potentially illegal? Indeed, seeing children being indoctrinated into any religion (especially by parents) makes me sad. They should be allowed to make their own, informed choice when they are old enough to do so.

 

[RS3]

Tess, if i could, i'd like that post numerous times.

The very idea of a Faith school is unthinkable.

The definition of Faith is a belief without evdence and School - A place of learning so in otherwords a faith school is a place where children learn unproven bull****!

Doctrination of children is where it all starts and must be stopped.

Unfortunately our current and recent leaders are all religous from war mongerer Blair to the Anti policing May. They are part of the problem i'm afraid and it's unlikely to change soon.

Perhaps more referendums are required so the likes of you and i can invoke the change that is required.

 

[legs]

So the ring leader's wife was of pakinisti origin & they lived on state benifets.

So he hates British culture (even though he was born here) but is happy to take the handouts that we all pay into. Hipocritical or what.

I'm sorry but I hope his wife & children are shipped out