[Damon]

There you go.

 

[thepedagogue]

There you go.

Perhaps you didn't listen to what was actually said. He did not say he was against shoot to kill, but was unhappy with a shoot to kill policy. He said he wanted to avoid a war on the streets, which I suggest we all want to avoid.

He has continuously stated his position on this and reiterated the need to try to address the problem at its root. I believe this is what resulted in the resolution in Northern Ireland.

Yes he was not in favour of shoot to kill as a policy, but I think most rational people would not be in favour of such a policy. Last night a member of the public was shot in the mayhem. With a shoot to kill policy we would have more of those terrible mistakes.

Another point to note about this attack is that they wanted to be shot by fooling the police and bystanders into believing they had suicide vests. In this case they were undeterred by the thought that they could be shot.

I don't know how we resolve this threat, but I do think that simply shooting people would not be the answer.

 

[Damon]

Wake up and smell the coffee. There is a war on our streets and the only way to beat these animals is to kill them before they kill us.
Jeremy views the world through rose tinted glasses and in a perfect world I'd agree with a lot he says, but unfortunately we don't.
The bloke is a joke.

 

[Bry]

Perhaps you didn't listen to what was actually said. He did not say he was against shoot to kill, but was unhappy with a shoot to kill policy. He said he wanted to avoid a war on the streets, which I suggest we all want to avoid.

He has continuously stated his position on this and reiterated the need to try to address the problem at its root. I believe this is what resulted in the resolution in Northern Ireland.

Yes he was not in favour of shoot to kill as a policy, but I think most rational people would not be in favour of such a policy. Last night a member of the public was shot in the mayhem. With a shoot to kill policy we would have more of those terrible mistakes.

Another point to note about this attack is that they wanted to be shot by fooling the police and bystanders into believing they had suicide vests. In this case they were undeterred by the thought that they could be shot.

I don't know how we resolve this threat, but I do think that simply shooting people would not be the answer.

If people are going around stabbing people or what ever what do you suggest.............. I'm rational and I say shot to kill the ****s. The liberal limp wristed approach is not what we need right now.

No they wanted people to be scared they were about to be blown up and not tackle them such as the cowards they are.

 

[Dave276]

Guys lets keep the political aspect of this in the election thread shall we.

I believe this post was meant for sharing our personal views & to empathise with those affected.

not to go attacking each others view' s . thanks

 

[Bry]

7m 50secs too long IMHO Graeme.

IMHO these response times are a consequence of decades of running down the police service and other services (fire/NHS/Care etc)in the UK.

Whilst I don't personally like the idea of armed police on patrol, however, maybe it has come to that now for British citizens?

without sufficient police officers on the streets of our major cities we will have to accept poor response times to situations such as this, some might say 8 minutes is good, but if one of your family were a victim would people still say that?

Unfortunately I don't see anything changing, the election rhetoric is exactly that, rhetoric, some will jump on the bandwagon of this & the Manchester attack and then do sweat F.A.

8 mins did seem a long time to me also in central London but without knowing the logistics of the situation it's hard to say.

 

[Lee]

 

[graeme]

7m 50secs too long IMHO Graeme.

IMHO these response times are a consequence of decades of running down the police service and other services (fire/NHS/Care etc)in the UK.

Whilst I don't personally like the idea of armed police on patrol, however, maybe it has come to that now for British citizens?

without sufficient police officers on the streets of our major cities we will have to accept poor response times to situations such as this,

some might say 8 minutes is good, but if one of your family were a victim would people still say that?

Unfortunately I don't see anything changing, the election rhetoric is exactly that, rhetoric, some politicians will jump on the bandwagon of this & the Manchester attack and then do sweat F.A.

Obviously in an ideal world they would have been there sooner ,but they had to get there from wherever they were, which unless they were in the right place at the right time wont ever happen :nope: once on scene they have to actually work out who to shoot rather than just opening fire at anyone, and there would have been a lot of people running about at the time :yep: so i think we can be quite proud of the police .

 

[DarkHorse]

Obviously in an ideal world they would have been there sooner ,but they had to get there from wherever they were, which unless they were in the right place at the right time wont ever happen :nope: once on scene they have to actually work out who to shoot rather than just opening fire at anyone, and there would have been a lot of people running about at the time :yep: so i think we can be quite proud of the police .

The Police and emergency services were absolutely brilliant and we can be rightly proud of them. The expertise and professionalism is beyond equal anywhere in the World. Apparently the elite SAS Unit "Blue Thunder" were deployed for the first time last night as the armed police weren't certain that all suspects had been eliminated.

 

[Ian J]

The Police and emergency services were absolutely brilliant and we can be rightly proud of them. The expertise and professionalism is beyond equal anywhere in the World. Apparently the elite SAS Unit "Blue Thunder" were deployed for the first time last night as the armed police weren't certain that all suspects had been eliminated.

I'm no expert but 8mins from incident to 3 terminated suspects is pretty impressive to me, I don't think we've seen a quicker response to anything like it before.

From what we've seen with both incidents now the emergency response has been regarded as well rehearsed and executed to plan, I personally don't think anything could be improved on that front. As is standard practice they will no doubt do a lessons learnt and instigate any changes required, the fact the SAS were deployed shows how serious they are about it also

 

[torquewrench]

When are the peaceful muslims (which are the majority) going to come out and publicly condemn these
never is my guess

The trouble is that the Muslim extremists committing these murders are ALL related to a peaceful Muslim. Mother, father, uncle, whatever. The Muslim community need to take more responsibility for the hatred being spread in THEIR RELIGION.

 

[craig-s]

I'm no expert but 8mins from incident to 3 terminated suspects is pretty impressive to me, I don't think we've seen a quicker response to anything like it before.

From what we've seen with both incidents now the emergency response has been regarded as well rehearsed and executed to plan, I personally don't think anything could be improved on that front. As is standard practice they will no doubt do a lessons learnt and instigate any changes required, the fact the SAS were deployed shows how serious they are about it also

Especially for an armed response that is very impressive,I can't see how anyone can think otherwise.

 

[craig-s]

Guys lets keep the political aspect of this in the election thread shall we.

I believe this post was meant for sharing our personal views & to empathise with those affected.

not to go attacking each others view' s . thanks

You should remove your previous comment then.

 

[Ian J]

Especially for an armed response that is very impressive,I can't see how anyone can think otherwise.

I know it can never be quick enough but I agree, damn impressive to me, take my hat off to them

 

[Bry]

The trouble is that the Muslim extremists committing these murders are ALL related to a peaceful Muslim. Mother, father, uncle, whatever. The Muslim community need to take more responsibility for the hatred being spread in THEIR RELIGION.

This is exactly what i have been saying they are all known within their communities and protected by them. 23000 with radical views known to the Police 3000 of which are known extremists, the answer is simple to me ......get rid.

 

[Wayne R]

7m 50secs too long IMHO Graeme.

IMHO these response times are a consequence of decades of running down the police service and other services (fire/NHS/Care etc)in the UK.

Whilst I don't personally like the idea of armed police on patrol, however, maybe it has come to that now for British citizens?

without sufficient police officers on the streets of our major cities we will have to accept poor response times to situations such as this,

some might say 8 minutes is good, but if one of your family were a victim would people still say that?

Unfortunately I don't see anything changing, the election rhetoric is exactly that, rhetoric, some politicians will jump on the bandwagon of this & the Manchester attack and then do sweat F.A.

Dave, the 8 minute response time are you're probably aware, is based on once the Police get notification of the incident.

So you dial 999 and report the incident, the incicent is still being commited, so people are getting hurt, the handler has to pass it to the relevant dept, and the dept need to respond in 12 minutes max, for an 'I' grade emergency call, incident is still happening. Fighting through busy traffic, get to scene and deal with what they find....

8 minutes is ****** quick, from 999 call to shot dead....

How could it be any quicker.

The majority of officers, don't want to be armed like the U.S, with a Government who won't really support you. We've all completed questionnaires asking our opinions on it.

But we knew it would be a waste of time, as the decision was above our wishes and pay grades.

I get what you're saying but there's never a bobby where you need one. Reason - There aren't enough anymore.

I wonder how many hours those firearms officers had worked before the call came through.. Most are on extended duties, of 12 hours minimum, overlapping which is why it looks like more are on the street.

Work / Life balance isn't considered in these circumstances.

 

[Dave276]

@[member="Wayno"]

Wayne you got my message, there just arent enough police.

My comment of it being 7m 50s too long , was in hindsight maybe flippant or tongue in cheek. I just thought adding a lol at the end of it would be inappropriate.

In no way was I having a dig at our police or other services, quite the contrary, considering the dwindling numbers they do a sterling job in these adverse circumstances, I just wished there was more investment in this area, but no one wants to pay for it . Catch 22.

 

[Wayne R]

Dave, no worries mate. I didn't take offence to the viewpoint. The Tories have never liked the police. Cameron made the first steps and May as HS at the time followed his lead. Now shes got the power, it's just easy to continue hitting the public services, over hitting her rich N wealthy.

I wonder if the Rich N Wealthy would take on an armed terrorist suspect, to keep London safe?!? putting their life on the line day after day.......Of course not!

 

[Davehull]

This is exactly what i have been saying they are all known within their communities and protected by them. 23000 with radical views known to the Police 3000 of which are known extremists, the answer is simple to me ......get rid.

At least one of the attackers was reported to the police by a friend. He also appeared on "Jihadis Next Door" on Channel 4.

The Manchester bomber was also reported by a friend and the local mosque.

To me it sounds like it's our intelligence agencies or legal system which is failing.

 

[BOOSTFAN]

There is no deterrent for these people, until there is nothing will change. They don't mind dying because they stupidly think they are going to a better place.

They might hesitate if they know their Families & even friends are deported back to where they originated from.